|Og of Bashan's bedstead|
Wednesday, September 17, 2014
Giant Humans in the Historical Record
Please Note that this material is presented without prejudice or favor to either side of the Creation – Evolution argument. I am neither a supporter-advocate nor detractor-debunker for either side. I am however, keenly interested in the actual historical record.
Antonio Pigafetta —a Venetian nobleman— joined the expedition of Magellan as the official chronicler of the voyage. Pigafetta kept a richly detailed diary of the expedition in which he made entries every day of the entire odyssey. Pigafetta said that one of the reasons for joining the expedition was to gain some fame for posterity. Here is an excerpt from his diary:
"Leaving that place, we finally reached 49 and one-half degrees toward the Antarctic Pole. As it was winter, the ships entered a safe port to winter. We passed two months in that place without seeing anyone. One day we suddenly saw a naked man of giant stature on the shore of the port, dancing, singing, and throwing dust on his head. The captain general sent one of our men to the giant so that he might perform the same actions as a sign of peace. Having done that, the man led the giant to an islet into the presence of the captain-general. When the giant was in the captain-general's and our presence, he marveled greatly, and made signs with one finger raised upward, believing that we had come from the sky.
"He was so tall that we reached only to his waist, and he was well proportioned."
His face was large and painted red all over, while about his eyes he was painted yellow; and he had two hearts painted on the middle of his cheeks. His scanty hair was painted white. He was dressed in the skins of animals skillfully sewn together. That animal has a head and ears as large as those of a mule, a neck and body like those of a camel, the legs of a deer, and the tail of a horse, like which it neighs, and that land has very many of them. His feet were shod with the same kind of skins which covered his feet in the manner of shoes. In his hand he carried a short, heavy bow, with a cord somewhat thicker than those of the lute, and made from the intestines of the same animal, and a bundle of rather short cane arrows feathered like ours, and with points of white and black flint stones in the manner of Turkish arrows, instead of iron. Those points were fashioned by means of another stone." (Diary of Pigafetta, pp. 51-52).
“It is significant to note that the above narrative is taken from the journal of the 'Official Chronicler' of Magellan's voyage of discovery. That is the one person above all others, who is tasked with recording and keeping the most accurate records of events, activities, etc. whether exotic or mundane. This person is not only responsible to the Commander of the voyage, but also to King and Country for his eye witness accounts as a complete, precise and accurate testimony of events that occurred during the voyage. Based on his position and responsibilities alone, his first hand eye witness testimony of encounters with 10' giants MUST be taken as factual information by an unimpeachable witness. To do otherwise, is to trivialize the importance of the Chronicler's fundamental accountability.”
It also gives foundation credit to other reports of giants in the Americas, Europe and the Middle East in other eras, particularly those from the early 12th and 13th century BC that follow in this narrative.
John Jensen 9-17-2012
Historical (Documented) Giants
Across the last (at least) 6,000 years, records indicate the presence of medium sized giant hominids up through the post Colombian period.
This section will look at the evidence of both oral and written records, as well as artifacts, bones and full skeletons that substantiate the actual existence of those post glacial mid or smaller sized giants. (Much larger than modern man, but not nearly as large as earlier Epoch Giants) The records and artifacts suggest current Epoch giant hominids up through the post Colombian era were the smaller of the giants, standing between 8' to 13' in height, and weighing between 850 and 3200 lbs.
In addition, this section will look at variations of hominids and hominin types, and their relationship to their antediluvian predecessors. Of particular interest are the Peruvian Coneheads, and other hominid types including the Starchild Skull.
This section will document the case that surviving giants and other (derivative) hominid types, and small to medium sized dinosaurs, particularly Sauropods, Triceratops, and Hadrosaurs lived in isolated (declining) small groups up into the Early Common Era. It is certainly likely that some aquatic forms may still exist.
In this section, I make reference to records contained in ancient 'religious texts', particularly the Talmud, Bible and some Apocryphal texts, such as 'The Book of Enoch'. I make reference to place names, events, people, and 'Giants', without supporting any claim of the nature, purpose, meaning or religious significance of such records. It is an important distinction. This inquiry is not taken to support or debunk Creationism or Evolution. I have tried to extract primary factual data from source material while not including any opinion or bias as to purpose or meaning of that particular data.
Historical Text References to Giants:
The Book of Giants: The Book of Giants was a work apparently composed in Syriac (an eastern dialect of Aramaic). The book was entirely lost until the twentieth century, although a few scant references to it survived in Latin, Greek, and Arabic, indicating that it involved battles of the ancient giants. Then about a century ago many highly fragmentary Manichean works written in Central Asian languages were recovered archaeologically at Turfan, in China (and much of the find remains unpublished even at present). The Dead Sea Scrolls contain fragments of the 'Book of Giants'.
The Epic of Gilgamesh: What is claimed as the oldest surviving epic-story in the world; 'The epic of Gilgamesh' also includes a references to giants. Gilgamesh and Enkidu go together to fight the evil Humbaba at the cedar mountains. The evil giants face was like a lion, a roar like a flood, a mouth of flames, breath that burns trees, and teeth like a dragons. In the end they cut off his head.
Herodotus in Book 1, Chapter 68: Describes how the Spartans uncovered in Tegea the body of Orestes which was seven cubits long -- around 10' 5". In his book, 'The Comparison of Romulus with Theseus' Plutarch describes how the Athenians uncovered the body of Theseus, which was of more than ordinary size. The kneecaps of Ajax were exactly the size of a discus for the boy's pentathlon, wrote Pausanias. A boy's discus was about twelve centimeters in diameter, while a normal adult patella is around five centimeters, suggesting Ajax may have been around 14 feet tall.
Pliny: The Arabian giant Gabara was 9 feet 9 inches. This Arabian giant is mentioned by Pliny, who says he was the tallest man seen in the days of Claudius.
Andronicus II. was 10 feet in height. He was grandson of Alexius Comnnus. Nictas asserts that he had seen him.
Elea'zer: was 7 cubits (nearly 10.5 feet). Vitellius sent this giant to Rome; and he is mentioned by Josephus. (Josephus speaks of a Jew 10 feet 2 inches).
Biblical references to giants:
Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
1 Chronicles 20:6 And yet again there was war at Gath, where was a man of great stature, whose fingers and toes were four and twenty, six on each hand, and six on each foot and he also was the son of the giant.
1 Chronicles 20:8 These were born unto the giant in Gath; and they fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.
Deuteronomy 1:28 'Whither shall we go up? our brethren have discouraged our heart, saying, the people are greater and taller than we; the cities are great and walled up to heaven; and moreover we have seen the sons of the Anakims there”.
Deuteronomy 2:11 Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites called them Emims.
Deuteronomy 2:20 '..giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims.
Deuteronomy 3:11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man. (ibid: 13' long and 6' wide)
Deuteronomy 3:13 And the rest of Gilead, and all Bashan, being the kingdom of Og, gave I unto the half tribe of Manasseh; all the region of Argob, with all Bashan, which was called the land of giants.
Joshua 12:4 And the coast of Og king of Bashan, which was of the remnant of the giants, that dwelt at Ashtaroth and at Edrei,
Joshua 13:12 All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out.
Joshua 15:8 And the border went up by the valley of the son of Hinnom unto the south side of the Jebusite; the same is Jerusalem: and the border went up to the top of the mountain that lieth before the valley of Hinnom westward, which is at the end of the valley of the giants northward:
Joshua 17:15 And Joshua answered them, If thou be a great people, then get thee up to the wood country, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee.
Joshua 18:16 And the border came down to the end of the mountain that lieth before the valley of the son of Hinnom, and which is in the valley of the giants on the north, and descended to the valley of Hinnom, to the side of Jebusi on the south, and descended to Enrogel,
Numbers 13:33 ANAK, father of the Anakim. 'The Hebrew spies said they were mere grass-hoppers in comparison with these giants' (3)
1 Samuel 17:4 And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.
1Samuel 21:16 And Ishbibenob, which was of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose spear weighed three hundred shekels of brass in weight, he being girded with a new sword, thought to have slain David.
2 Samuel 21:18 And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant.
2 Samuel 21:20 And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
2 Samuel 21:22 These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.
1 Chronicles 20:4 And it came to pass after this, that there arose war at Gezer with the Philistines; at which time Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Sippai, that was of the children of the giants: and they were subdued.
Over 20 direct references to Giants, their localities and families in the early biblical texts, means their actual physical presence is factually historical. Based on the above history, we will review the Cities of Bashan, the Capital City of Og, King of Bashan.
A note about 'Cubit' measurement. The 'Cubit' defines a precise unit measurement of length. used throughout the period as a recognizable and valid measurement for trade purposes. It was acknowledged by all trading partners as a standard unit of measure. Actually, both Sumerian and Egyptian 'cubits' had two measurements, one a 'common' measurement of 18”, and the other a 'Royal' measurement of 20.4” . The 'common' cubit is recognized by most scholars as the unit of measure in Biblical texts. That is how Goliath's 'six cubits and a span is converted to 9'9” in height. (a 'span' is exactly half a common cubit, or 9”.)
Individual Giants referenced.
- ANAK Father of a Clan of Giants living in Cannan. (Num 12:28)
- ARBA Forefather of Anak and the Anakim. (Josh 15:32, 21:11)
- AHIMAN A descendant of Arba and Anak who lived in Kiriath-Arba, later called 'Hebron'. (Num 13:10) One of three giants driven out of Hebron by Caleb. (Jos 15:14, Jud 1:10, 20)
- RAPHA Early ancestor of all the giant clans in Palestine-Bashan, including Anakites,Emites and Horites. (Duet 2:10; 2 Sam 21:16,18,20,22; 1 Chron 20:4,6,8)
- SEPHAR Another Anikite patriarch like Arba. (Josh 15:15)
- OG The King of Bashan, identified as the last of “the Rephaites” is the largest giant referenced. Og ruled near Mount Hermon, where according to Enoch, Angels sired the Nephilim. Og's army was defeated and he was killed by the Isrealites near Edrei, while the Army was still commanded by Moses. (Duet 3:1-11)
- SHESHAI A descendant of Arba and Anak who lived in Kiriath-Arba, later called 'Hebron'. (Num 13:10) One of three giants driven out of Hebron by Caleb. (Jos 15:14, Jud 1:10, 20)
- TALMAI A descendant of Arba and Anak who lived in Kiriath-Arba, later called 'Hebron'. (Num 13:10) One of three giants driven out of Hebron by Caleb. (Jos 15:14, Jud 1:10, 20)
- GOLIATH Was descendant from the Anakim giants. Champion of the Philistines. Was about 9' 9" tall, wore armor weighing 125 lbs, his spearhead weighed 15 lbs, (1 Sam 17:4; Josh 11:22)
- LAHMI A brother of Goliath, from Gath. Used a spear similar to one used by Goliath. (1 Chron 20:5; 2 Sam 21:19)
- ISHBI-BENOB A giant living in Gath with the Philistines in southern Canaan. Was killed by David's nephew Abishai in a battle between Israelites and Philistines. His spearhead was 7.5 lbs, half the size of Goliath's spearhead. (2 Sam 21:15-27,22)
- SAPH or SAPPAI Another giant who lived with the Philistines in Gath. Was killed by one of David's men: 'Sibbachai the Hushathite'. (1 Chron 20:4,8; 2 Sam 21:18,22)
- Unnamed A giant with 6 fingers on each hand, and 6 toes on each foot. (2 Sam 21:10-22; 1 Chron 20:6,8)
- Unnamed Another giant from Gath, killed in battle by David's nephew, Jonathon.
The following is a chart of the Tribes and Clans of Giants from Bashan - Mount Hermon
The following data and information documents the modern era re-discovery of many cities of Bashan by the 19th Century Explorer, Josiah Porter. The account is taken from his book ' The Giant Cities of Bashan' published in 1882.
Bashan, City of Giants
The ancient territory of Bashan now lies in southern Lebanon, western Syria, and part of the disputed Golan Heights. How could a province measuring not more than 30 by 20 miles (50 by 32 kilometers) support the reported number of fortified cities, especially when the greater part of it was a wilderness of rock? But, mysterious and incredible as this seems, the cities built and occupied 4,000 years ago by giants exist even yet.
Nineteenth century explorer, Josiah Porter, traversed their empty streets; he opened doors of their houses; he slept peacefully in their long-deserted halls. From a tower in one of them, Salcah, Porter counted some 30 towns and villages dotting the surface of the plain. He reports: "On the spot, with my own eyes, I have seen that it is literally true. The cities are there to this day. Some of them retain the ancient names recorded in the Bible.
These 'cities' are really walled towns normally only about a hectare (2½ acres) in area. They appear to be scattered around the ancient fortress just outside El Khodor, which is built on a high volcanic plug. This fortress has been built and rebuilt several times since, but there is plenty of evidence of really ancient foundations and structures dating well before the Roman ruins, which are very obvious. I imagine that King Og (referred to in Numbers 21) ruled from this fortress.
Worldwide, most ancient cities have vanished. Not so Bashan. It is literally crowded with towns and large villages - most of them, until recently, deserted. Yet they are not ruined! Many of the houses in these cities are perfect, as if only finished yesterday. The walls are sound, the roofs unbroken, the doors, and even the window-shutters in place. The walls of the cities are 15 feet thick and 30 feet high”. “ Porter found the huge gates still in place.
Rooms inside private houses measure up to 20 feet high. Here are huge rooms and apartments in perfect preservation. One by one, Porter entered some of these old houses, went up stairs and visited the rooms. Moss grows over the ruins. Groups of tapering columns spring up from the dense foliage of the oaks. Luxuriant creepers twist around the pillars. Brambles grow in festoons over the doorways. Branches of trees shoot through gaping cracks in some old walls. Owls flap their wings and foxes and jackals scamper along the streets.
The rocks are black, the soil is black, the buildings are all black - but not gloomy. The grass is green, the oak foliage, glittering in the sun, is brilliant. The private houses bear the marks of the most remote antiquity. They leave us to conclude that the cities were built by giants - a race of giants that has been extinct for more than 3,000 years. Porter noted that the highways of Bashan were still in place, completely covered here and there, with the branches of oak trees and straggling brambles.
"There is plenty of evidence of ancient black basalt 'cities', mostly within modern townships, which are integrated with the ruins. Some of the evidence is very good, including the high-arched doorway into a large house in Al Harisah, which has cleverly designed, high-arched stone ceilings. It supports a new house which has just been plonked on top, with livestock and accumulating debris occupying the rooms below.
* From (J. Porter, The Giant Cities of Bashan, T. Nelson and Son, London, 1882)
Other Giant Related Anomalies
Without making any unnecessary claims, the 20 or so references to several dozen different giants and remnants of giants, as well as clans and tribes, is historically accurate, because the city of Bashan with 10′ doorways and 12′ rooms is standing proof of that claim.
What you have is historical (Old Testament) records of Giants, (Og, King of Bashan, and Goliath and his 4 siblings 400 years later), and actual Archaeological remains of entire cities, from Bashan to the megalithic ruins of Baalbek, and Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem indicating that giants, their cities and their megalithic stonework were more likely than not, a historical fact in the region of the Golan Heights.
What is also interesting in this light is that Mount Hermon in the Bashan district was a major religious center before Jerusalem was organized as the seat of King David’s empire. In addition, the ancient platforms of Baalbek are less than 30 miles north of the city of Bashan. Also, it is noteworthy that the great cut and worked stone building materials of Bashan, as well as the giant stones of Baalbek and the megaliths under Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem have many of the same characteristics.
The specific information regarding historical references to the Giants of the Old Testament seems to be as accurate and compelling as any ancient document, and seems to have much factual data that can be verified outside the boundaries of faith and prejudice.
The following information will review other published data and information from other secular sources from the USA and other world locations that document artifacts and evidence of giant humans. From www.stangrist.com
"A skeleton which is reported to have been of enormous dimensions" was found in a clay coffin, with a sandstone slab containing hieroglyphics, during mound explorations by a Dr Everhart near Zanesville, Ohio.(American Antiquarian, v3, 1880, pg61)
Ten skeletons "of both sexes and of gigantic size" were taken from a mound at Warren, Minnesota, 1883. (St. Paul Pioneer Press, May 23, 1883)
A skeleton 7 feet 6 inches long was found in a massive stone structure that was likened to a temple chamber within a mound in Kanawha County, West Virginia, in 1884. (American Antiquarian, v6, 1884 133f. Cyrus Thomas, Report on Mound Explorations of the Bureau of Ethnology, 12th Annual Report, Smithsonian Bureau of Ethnology, 1890-91)
A large mound near Gasterville, Pennsylvania, contained a vault in which was found a skeleton measuring 7 feet 2 inches. Inscriptions were carved on the vault. (American Antiquarian, v7, 1885, 52f)
In 1885, miners discovered the mummified remains of woman measuring 6 feet 8 inches tall holding an infant. The mummies were found in a cave behind a wall of rock in the Yosemite Valley.
In Minnesota, 1888, were discovered remains of seven skeletons 7 to 8 feet tall. (St. Paul Pioneer Press, June 29, 1888)
A mound near Toledo, Ohio, held 20 skeletons, seated and facing east with jaws and teeth "twice as large as those of present day people," and besides each was a large bowl with "curiously wrought hieroglyphic figures." (Chicago Record, Oct. 24, 1895; cited by Ron G. Dobbins, NEARA Journal, v13, fall 1978)
The skeleton of a huge man was uncovered at the Beckley farm, Lake Koronis, Minnesota; while at Moose Island and Pine City, bones of other giants came to light. (St. Paul Globe, Aug. 12, 1896)
In 1911, several red-haired mummies ranging from 6 and a half feet to 8 feet tall were discovered in a cave in Lovelock, Nevada.
In February and June of 1931, large skeletons were found in the Humboldt lake bed near Lovelock, Nevada. The first of these two skeletons found measured 8 1/2 feet tall and appeared to have been wrapped in a gum-covered fabric similar to the Egyptian manner. The second skeleton was almost 10 feet long.(Review - Miner, June 19, 1931)
A 7 foot 7 inch skeleton was reported to have been found on the Friedman ranch, near Lovelock, Nevada, in 1939.(Review - Miner, Sept. 29, 1939) In 1965, a skeleton measuring 8 feet 9 inches was found buried under a rock ledge along the Holly Creek in east-central Kentucky.
What the above means is that a remnant of a race of giants survived into the early 16th century (1519-1522). It gives full force and credit to other reported encounters with giants in the Americas by Europeans during that time period.
It also gives foundation credit to other reports of giants in the Americas, Europe and the Middle East and other eras.
The following clippings are from various newspaper accounts, though most are sourced through the New York Times.
Giants and Megaliths
Megalithic construction requires a 'motive' process that appears to be well beyond the functional physical limitations of modern humans. Though when the reality of Giant hominid capabilities (in terms of weight to strength ratios) are applied to the motive problem, it nearly disappears.
First it is necessary to understand the nature of the physical increases in strength between different sizes of humans.
The best evidence is from the Guinness Book of World Records regarding the 'World's Tallest “Natural Giant” in Recorded History', Angus Mackaskill, a Scotsman from Burneray, who lived from 1825 to 1863. He was a 'true' giant, meaning he was of normal proportions, suffering no abnormalities. He was 7' 9” tall and weighed just over 500 lbs.
That ratio of height to strength means an increase of roughly 28% in body height results in a 250% increase in body weight and muscle mass. Using the standard model of 150% of body weight as lifting capacity, his strength (lift weight) limit can easily be determined at about 750 lbs.
Which means that a 10' tall giant would weigh roughly 1,275 lbs and would have a lifting capacity of about 1,912 lbs. While a 12'4” giant would weigh about 3,200 lbs with a lifting capacity of about 4,820 lbs, which is about 2.5 tons. At that rate 25 giants could lift 100 ton, and 250 could lift 1000 ton.
A mechanical rigging engineer can explain the rudiments of moving dead weight with little more than serious rigging (block and tackle systems. 'The Thunder Stone', the largest single block of stone in the modern era to have been moved by human power alone. The Thunder Stone is the single monolith weighing over 1,200 ton, used as the base for the statue of Peter the Great in St. Petersburg, Russia. It was moved several miles in under 9 months, with a crew of 400 odd workers, and no horses or machinery, just block and tackle rigging and large caster ball bearings.
What the evidence seems to indicate is: Originally, "there were a race of giants."
Their intellect and physical powers remains legendary. They built colossal megalithic buildings, cities, towns, roads, and walls (enclosures), They may have had other forms of advanced technology, though all that remains of their technology is very large stone artifacts, some primitive tools, and skeletal and funerary remains. It seems that the earliest megalithic remnants appear to be the most sophisticated, with the largest and best dressed megaliths at or near the bottom of ancient construction, with newer materials, both smaller and less sophisticated are built over and on top of the larger stones.
Over time those disasters left surviving 'groups' in isolation from each other in specific 'pockets' around the world. Based on Haplogroup X markers, O neg blood type, and linguistic roots, the related areas and groups are; The North Berbers of the Atlas range, Canary Islanders, the Basque, the Druze of Lebanon, the Celts, the Sumerians, as well as other groups in Kashmir, Western China, the Gobi, North America, South America, and areas of the Pacific rim.
In the impoverished environment which followed the last Super Catastrophe 7,000 years ago, degeneration was accelerated. However, for some time there persisted a significant, though decreasing proportion of hominids who retained enormous stature. It is a possibility that remnants of those giants still exist today as Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Alma, etc.
There seems to be several different form characteristics, with three distinguishing features. The first is that some earlier ancestor giants were not only of giant stature, but also long lived, with lifespans several times that of modern humans. Others descendants of the original Nephilim, 'devolved' or degenerated to what seems to be a larger form of marginal Neanderthals. And last there appears to be significantly different body sizes and types. One feature is that 'some' specific (but not all) giants had 6 fingers and 6 toes, and a double row of teeth. This distinctive trait is seen all over the world. Another trait is that 'some' (but not all) giants were 'red skinned or red men', and some had red or russet hair.
The most significant characteristic is the difference in size range. Using the historical record, the size range of the early current Epoch giants and predecessors were 9' to 16' in height. That is for the giants that we have specific records of.
(OG the king of Bashan) was a little over 12' tall. About 400 years later, the general size had been reduced to between 9' and 10.5” (Goliath and his brothers), which suggests a significant 'survivable' population) The average size of the giants up through the post Colombian era seems to be about 7.5' to 10' tall. This group includes the Patagonian Giants and other North and South American giants.
The above information is taken from historical records. There are thousands of additional records of various giants found in all kinds of circumstances, with various degrees of evidene including skeletal remains, oversized tools and reliable first hand reports over the last 2,500 years. It is not the intention of this paper to add information that is widely available elsewhere on the internet. The purpose of this paper is to look at the historical records, and determine if the credible testimony contained in that record will substantiate the existence of giants in our current Epoch. (From 7,000 years ago to present) That such giants lived in and near the City of Bashan and Mt Hermon; and were hunted to near extinction by Moses and Joshua are historically recorded facts. The city of Bashan stands in mute testimony to their presence.
The evidence for Giants in our Epoch, indicates they are descendents from a race of Giants that co-existed with Modern Humans, Cro Magnon, Neanderthals and other hominid species prior to the Last Great Cataclysm of 7,000 years ago. They, like other giant flora and fauna declined in stature, and then finally going nearly extinct as a species sometime in the last 1,500 years, with a very few remote and isolated pockets, like the Patagonia Giants surviving into a post Columbian period.
As a final note, I would include the distinct possibility that one of the 6 cataclysm during the last 15,000 years of the post ice age, included a drastic increase in the 'G' force of this planet, thereby causing the extinction of most giant flora and fauna, including giant humans. If that is the case, it would explain 'blood and tissue' remains in various non fosselized dinosaur bones that have been 14c tested, returning dates of less than 12,000 years before present. In fact, my next paper will make that case, conclusively.
John Jensen – Oct. 2010